A: Estee Lalonde started sharing videos on YouTube over 10 years ago, after moving to the UK from Canada, way before it became a thing. From a young age, Estee knew she wanted a creative career. She has spent the last decade building up her personal brand and establishing herself as a much-loved voice of the digital generation.

Estee is known for beauty and lifestyle content. I love her openness about her vulnerable side and addressing her struggle with mental health. In addition to her videos and podcasts, Estee collaborates with brands, most notably with Daisy London, with whom she has created 3 best-selling jewellery collections. I am wearing one of those today.

Estee’s most recent project, MIRROR WATER, is a lifestyle community focused on self-reflection. When I think of Estee, I think of a modern-day entrepreneur, a beautiful human inside and out with a smile that lights up a room. So Estee, welcome to the podcast.

E: I think I’m going to cry. Thank you, Abigail. Thanks for having me.

A: It’s a pleasure, thank you for agreeing to come on the podcast. We first met when we were both presenting for Lancôme. We were on a little panel together. I think that’s the first time we met.

E: Yes, for some reason, I have a vision of you giving me a facial and putting blueberry acid on my face, that’s the only thing I can remember. It just escalated quickly, didn’t it?

A: I’d have definitely done that. So I know we’ve worked together in the industry for a long time, and kept up with each other, but I love my guests to share in your own words your journey to getting where we are. I know you could literally fill a whole book on their Estee essay, so over to you.

E: Those who have watched me for a long time already know the story, so I won’t go into too much detail. But for those who have never heard of me, I’m originally from Canada. I moved to the UK when I just turned 19. I’m 32 now, so I’ve been here for a while. When I moved to the UK, I didn’t know anyone, I knew maybe one or two people, but I was really homesick and really lonely.

Somehow, I stumbled across the world of blogging, and fell in love. I saw a sense of community that existed online through people’s love of beauty products. It’s interesting, because when I was 19, I didn’t care about skincare and beauty or anything like that. But I guess I was just getting to the age where I was becoming more interested.

I learned all about beauty and wellness online, and I showed that journey through my blog. Then, eventually, I made a YouTube channel because people wanted to see my personality and hear what I had to say. Through that, instead of just talking about beauty products, I started talking about my life and my move. It resonated with a lot of people that I moved abroad, because I had a large audience of people who had done the same. I was also quite young, so I think it was an interesting point of view for many people, and it just kept going.

I was working full-time jobs, I was studying, and eventually I just quit those jobs and thought, ‘I’m going to give YouTube a real chance.’ When I started, I didn’t even know it could be a job. I eventually realised it could be if I tried really hard, and luckily it worked out, and 12 years later, here I am.

I’ve launched my own beauty brand, less than a year ago, like you mentioned, called MIRROR WATER. I’ve had my Daisy jewellery collections, which have been really successful. I’m obsessed with jewellery, and I’ve learned a lot over the years about, not only beauty and wellness, but also about running your own business and wearing multiple hats. When you’re a YouTube or content creator, you’re not just filming a video. You’re filming, editing, answering the emails, negotiating brand deals and contracts, and dealing with your finances. So there are many elements, such as doing your own PR and marketing, that I have learned over the years, and it’s been exciting to apply those skills to my next business.

A: So I’ve got to ask, what jobs were you doing before this?

I worked at the beauty counter in Topshop, in Westfield, Stratford, that was one of my first jobs here in the UK. I also worked at a furniture store in Notting Hill, which I hated so much.

I had to wake up really early, because the store opened early, and it was just, I just hated it. We all have jobs that we just didn’t click with, and that was one of them. I worked at Triumph, which is like an underwear and bra store, so that was fun. I remember I was living in Cambridge at that time, so I had to take the train to London all by myself to go on a bra fitting course. I remember getting out of the train station in London and thinking like, ‘Oh my God, where am I? This is so scary.’ Then I did this course all about how to get the fit of a bra, and I just felt so out of my depth. I’ve done everything.

A: You’ve got your partnerships with Daisy, you’ve got MIRROR WATER, I’m feeling there’s some underwear coming out, surely.

E: I don’t think so. I would love to do some underwear. I live in my underwear. I’m in my underwear right now. I love it.

A: As one of the forerunners in the sphere of blogging or YouTube, how did your friends or family perceive the shift of you becoming a creator? I guess some people must have thought, ‘What, what the hell is she doing?’

E: For starters, I didn’t want to tell anyone about it, because it was really embarrassing at the time. It’s not like today, where everybody wants to be an influencer. I was speaking to my friend, who is a teacher, and she said everybody in her school thinks they’re going to grow up to be a famous influencer. Maybe they will, but probably not. I didn’t tell a lot of people in the beginning, mostly because I didn’t really know what I was doing. I did tell my mom that I was going to start a YouTube channel. I think she thought it was cute, but she didn’t think it was ever going to be a job. None of us did.

I remember when I posted my first YouTube video it got maybe 11 views, overnight. Seven of those views, at least, were my own and my mom, but I was proud of those 11 views. Since then, my mom has been supportive, and she’s been my number one fan.

We joke and say she’s my real manager, because she’s been through everything with me; all the growth, every video, giving every video a thumbs up, leaving comments on everything. Even to this day, you’ll see on my Instagram, she pretty much writes a comment on all my Instagram posts. So she was very supportive.

When my friends back home in Canada found out, they actually made fun of me, and not in a nice way. They had second-hand embarrassment, I think. It’s funny, as I started growing and the industry started growing, people started understanding YouTube more, and they started thinking it was cooler.

At that time, you had to put your blinders on and do what you wanted to do, because there were many people telling you that you couldn’t and shouldn’t do it. It’s so interesting to look back, I consider that time as one of the most fascinating parts of my career. No one knew what was coming, and all of us who started at that time were in it together. We had no idea, and we were all helping each other, and that was very exciting for all of us. It’s changed a lot since those days.

A: I know from dipping into YouTube and filming that it is a full-time job, and I think people underestimate that. You’ve mentioned the different hats you put on. You’re not just videoing, you are editing and planning out your content. I think there is a misconception of what is actually involved in what looks quite effortless on the screen, and you’ve got over a million subscribers on YouTube.

E: Yes. I feel like my glory days are over. I had my good days, and now it’s different. The new generations are coming along, and that’s what people are watching. I still obviously have an amazing core audience, and I make videos for those people. A lot of my audience are my age, in their early or mid-30’s, and they grew up with me. When they were all in university, they had all the time in the world to watch my videos, and we’ve all grown up together, which means just like me, their responsibilities and roles have changed. So, I do have over a million followers, but I think it’s interesting how things have shifted because they’ve all grown up with me.

One thing I will say about your earlier point of how people underestimate how much time it takes is that I’ve had that since day one. People thought it wasn’t a real job. I’ve had so many comments about how the beauty industry is not a real industry. I’ve always said that it’s not my job to make someone feel like I work a lot. I don’t need people to tell me I work a lot, because I know I work a lot. All the people close to me know that I worked really hard, and I’ve worked for this.

I think people are coming to watch YouTube or go on Instagram escape, and so they don’t necessarily need to be shown what it takes and what goes into that content. Sometimes I think it is interesting to share, but people don’t get it, and I don’t understand why, because it’s been going on for so long now. But if it were easy, everyone would do it.

The online world has changed dramatically over the past decade. What changes have you seen? Are there any that you’re not embracing, or any that you’ve felt the need to morph and change with?

I think the key to a successful online career is to be adaptable and changeable, and you have to take on those new things. I have been resisting TikTok, but I knew that was a stupid decision. I should have been on TikTok from the beginning, but when TikTok was coming up, I was launching my brand, so I just genuinely did not have the capacity. But now I’m getting a bit more time and I want to start doing TikTok.

You can’t just say, ‘Oh, I’m not doing that,’ because that’s not how the digital landscape works. You have to try everything, and that’s what it’s all about. You have to share your audiences across platforms, and that’s how you grow. So I do try to take everything on board, while also keeping in mind that I now have two jobs, so I don’t want to burn out either.

A: Yes. I think TikTok is where it’s going to be. Your name came up on my TikTok yesterday as I was scrolling.

E: My TikTok all about how I want to start TikTok .

A: You mentioned that when you were starting out, there was negativity from people that you knew, and I know when you have an online presence, you are opening yourself up to the good, the bad, and the ugly. How have you managed that throughout your career?

E: I think in the early days it was a lot more difficult for me than it is now. I was 19, you’re not fully formed as a human being when you’re 19 and you’re not completely comfortable in your own skin. If somebody was calling me names or pointing out a personality trait of mine that they didn’t like, it really got to me.

The best thing for me was that I did have an amazing support system. My partner at the time, my mom, I have people in my life that know the real me, and they don’t care if one of my eyebrows looks different to the other. So I think you always have to keep rooted in reality and remember that the digital world is its own world, but it’s not the real world, and you can’t absorb too much of that.

I’ve got a much thicker skin now. There’s also a bad side to receiving too many good compliments. I think when you’re seeing comments everyday like, ‘I love you so much, you’re amazing. You can do no wrong. I’d watch you do anything. You’re the best,’ That’s not good for me either, because that’s not reality.

In the real world, when you go to the pub with your friends, not everybody’s going to just sit there and compliment everything about you. It’s important to remember that balance and try not to let it affect you. I feel for all of the teenagers and younger people growing up with social media and all that access, because it must be incredibly difficult.

I kind of grew up in half online and half before online, so I can kind of understand both worlds a bit.

A: That’s one of the things I love about you Estee. You do have this public persona, but you are feet on the ground. You’ve shared a lot of your vulnerability over your time online. Was that a conscious decision to share that, and was it a difficult thing to do?

E: No, it’s interesting because I didn’t think anything of it when I shared it. I shared it because I share everything. You have to remember that since I was 19, I have pretty much told everyone everything about my life.

Obviously, my boundaries have significantly changed since then. I have different limits now than I did when I was 19, but it was just another thing I was sharing, just as I might share what I was having for lunch. I never had an issue sharing it. I enjoyed it and I felt like it was almost my job to share it, because people felt a sense of friendship and kinship with me.

I wanted them to know that I’m a real person, and I found it really rewarding actually to share it, and then I just kind of kept sharing it. I don’t find it difficult. The funny thing is, I can share all about my anxiety and my depression with a huge audience, and I could do a panel all about it, but if I’m one on one with someone in my real life, I find it a lot more difficult.

I’m chatting with my therapist all about that. I just think it’s weird that I can say it here with no issue and tell everybody what I’m going through. If it’s a more intimate experience, then I find that a lot more difficult.

A: Can we talk about Effy for a moment?

E: Yes.

A: So you are a dog person, and I think as long as I’ve known you online, you’ve had big dogs.

E: Well, Effie’s not too big, but yes, I am a dog person. I grew up with dogs, and I love them. I love everything about them. I couldn’t live without a dog, basically. In my earlier days on YouTube, I adopted a Greyhound. His name was Reggie, and he was just the love of my life. He still is the love of my life. I think about him every day, and animal lovers will understand what that’s like.

It’s a member of the family, and I just still think about the way he used to make me feel, and I just adore him. When we adopted Reggie, it was amazing, because I’m not kidding. Hundreds of greyhounds were adopted because of that, and a lot of people said that they never considered adopting a greyhound before I saw Reggie. They thought they were scary, or weird, they didn’t know anything about them, but since they’d seen my love for Reggie and the process of adopting him, they wanted one. So many people have got them, and people still tag me in greyhound videos today or say, ‘Oh, I got a Greyhound thinking of Reggie.’

That’s incredible to me. For me, that’s more valuable than anything else I’ve ever done. So when I lost Reggie, my poor baby, when he was 13 or 14, I knew I had to adopt again. He’s off to a better place, in outer space, hanging out with all the other dogs and catching squirrels.

Firstly, I didn’t know if I could ever get another dog, because I just loved him so much and I didn’t know if I could do it. But after three or four months, I realised there is no way I can not have a dog. I do struggle with depression and anxiety, and I just need a reason to wake up in the morning. I need a reason to go outside, hear the birds chirping, talk to a neighbour, and as you said earlier, get grounded.

So I adopted another dog named Effy. She is a little rescue from Greece, and I adopted her through a foundation called Wild at Heart Foundation. I must say it was the most difficult thing I have ever done. It was way more difficult than having a YouTube career. It was truly the hardest thing ever because she was on the very extreme side of nervousness. So I had to work very hard to get her to have confidence and get her to even make eye contact with me. It was four months before she would even look at me.

That was a huge journey that I shared online. Of course, I hope that it inspires people to adopt, so, or even just have a pet in general, because it just does wonders for your mental health.

A: Yes. I am that dog person, and I couldn’t imagine not having a dog in my life. It’s interesting that you say that there is that reason to get up in the morning, to go outside and do something, when life gets a bit lumpy or it’s feeling heavy. Effy obviously helps you get up and out and do things. Have you got any tips or practices that you can draw on that help you through those times?

I know you are a yogi, so maybe this is the conversation I’ve been needing to have. I have always been inspired by you and all that you do on that yoga mat. I used to do yoga almost every day, and I used to absolutely love it, and I have completely fallen off the bandwagon since the pandemic.

I haven’t really practised regularly since the pandemic, which is a shame. I know I could always get back on the mat, but you know what it’s like when you don’t do it for a while. There’s an anxiety to it. I would really love to get back into yoga, and I think that’s something that helped me so much.

I stretch all the time, and that is amazing. I don’t understand how you can feel so different from doing even simple stretches. Stretching your arms or rolling your shoulders can completely reset your mood and just shift your energy a little bit. Sometimes when I’m super depressed, it’s the last thing I want to do is exercise. Stretching is so helpful for me.

E: The mental health struggles are something that we share. I personally first went on antidepressants at the age of 23. Sometimes, people from the exterior think, ‘Well, she’s just got her life sorted. She knows exactly what she’s doing,’ and you can be very good at doing that and masking things. I think it’s important for people to acknowledge their mood and check in with themselves. I needed medical help at that point in my life, but I think we have both done a lot of inner work. It’s the confidence to say, ‘Actually, I’m not okay. I need help and support.’

Mental health is just continuing to become more of an issue everywhere in the world, as life gets more hectic and crazier. When you were struggling, was there someone that you found easy to talk to?

I know you said that you could speak to everybody online about things, but had you got that person or someone who you went to and said, ‘I need some help here.’

E: Yes, my mom has just been my rock throughout my entire life. I’m obsessed with her. I love her. She’s so funny, and although she lives in Canada, we speak every single day on the phone.

I trust her with everything, and I value her opinion and everything. She herself has always struggled with depression and never had anxiety until later in life, until her forties. So she really understands it and she understands me.

Bringing it back to Effy for a moment, I think we can learn so much about dogs, and they say that you get the dog you need. I did not know I needed this much work in my life, but one thing I learned with having Effy is that I have to be her advocate. So she can’t be around people. She can’t do things that stress her out, and it’s taught me that I have to be that person for myself as well.

I have to advocate for myself and my own needs. I’ve recently hung out with people who don’t know how to say no. They don’t know how to say, ‘I need to go home now, because this is getting a little stressful.’ Or ‘No, I don’t need to go to that party. I’m quite tired, and I just want a nice night in.’ I am actually the queen of saying no.

I think that’s come with time and that inner work on having the confidence to just feel comfortable in the fact that it’s Saturday night and I’m going to read my book and journal tonight, and I am really happy with that decision.

A: That sounds like the perfect Saturday night for me. I know you love skin care and beauty, but how do you feel about the aging process?

E: I’m going to be honest with you. I had a Botox appointment booked in for next week, but I’ve cancelled it. There’s nothing against Botox, I totally understand why somebody would want it. I literally do not care if somebody gets Botox. I never thought I would get Botox, I don’t know why, I just thought I would never age.

I’ve been looking in the mirror a lot, and I think when you turn 30, everything changes from your head to your toes. Things are changing, and I just started getting obsessed with, like the lines on my forehead and near my eyes, in a way that I wasn’t used to. I’m really not that critical of my physical appearance in that way, and I thought, ‘That’s it. I’m getting Botox.’

Then I just chickened out. You know, I think about my mom, and she’s never had any work done. I don’t want to make anyone feel judged, because everybody has their own journey, but she just looks so beautiful as she is. I’m just going to keep up with the facial massage. I can’t say I’m never going to get Botox. I totally understand getting it, because there are so many pressures, and we all want to feel our best. Social media is an especially toxic place, where we’re not seeing real faces.

I’m guilty of it too, I take a picture at a certain angle, so you’re not seeing what people actually look like. So yes, I did get sucked in there for a minute, but I’m going to try to age gracefully.

A: I think a lot of us in our twenties say that we’ll never get Botox, until you start seeing it on your own face and you’re like, ‘Maybe just a little tweak is fine.’

When I get a new client, we go through the wish list of what we want to achieve. There are two camps; some feel much like yourself, and some are set against it. But I often find that when we get into when they last had any kind of face treatment, they admit it was three years ago or something. There’s a lot of space between not doing anything to your skin and having injectables.

I know you love facials, when did you last have some kind of face treatment? Is it something that you try and do regularly, or are you a little bit more sporadic?

E: Yes, I do it regularly at whenever I can. Luckily for me, with my job, I get offered facials a lot. That is a huge perk, especially as I age, because I love facials. I get laser treatments and things like that. I think there are so many things that you can do that are effective without doing injectables, and I’m going to try all of those things first.

If I still want a few little micro-Botox treatments or whatever, then maybe I will. I do get a lot of facials, and I think that they’re incredible. I try to keep up a good skincare routine at home, I do it every single day and night, no matter what, and I drink a lot of water.

I will say that I was very naughty in my twenties and didn’t wear SPF every day, but now I regret it very much. Now, every day I wear SPF 50. So that’s the other thing I would definitely say: don’t be bad, just put it on, get an SPF in your moisturiser, and move on with your day.

A: I was that person in my twenties, I think in your twenties you just are. My daughter is 23 and she is currently that person. In your twenties, you want to tan, and you feel like you’re never going to age, live forever. It’s at the back of your mind, it’s not until you start seeing stuff that you start thinking about it. We’ve done a whole load of damage by that point. So I need to know, are there any desert island skincare products or what are you currently loving?

E: Well, it’s so hot, so I’m honestly not wearing that many products these days because I’m not wearing makeup. As I’m getting older, I’m not wearing that much makeup. I’m all about the skincare and maybe some brow gel. Some skincare things that I am loving right now there. Do you know the brand, Kichi? She has an oil; it’s called the Forever Oil, I love it. I’m loving exfoliating. I have really dry, dehydrated skin, so I like to do like an acid exfoliating mask. I’m such a hydrator. I love essences. I love Sarah Chapman’s Hydrating Serum. I love the Chantecaille Eye Cream. You’ve got me going now, Abigail.

A: So we’ve talked about you as the entrepreneur and some of the beauty side of things, and also the mental health side of things. That nicely segues into your latest venture, which is MIRROR WATER. I would love to know a little bit about how that came about and where you are with that.

E: MIRROR WATER is so exciting to me. Firstly, I put my heart, soul, every piece of energy and fibre of my being into making MIRROR WATER. It’s been a personal ambition of mine; I always knew I wanted to do something that could live alongside my YouTube channel that didn’t have my name attached to it. Because I’ve been on the internet a very long time, and I know that if you have your name attached to it, and the brand is your name, then you are always going to be the face of it.

I don’t have that much time anymore, so I wanted to create something that could sit beside. Also, I feel like I’ve shared my journey, I’ve shared a lot. I don’t mean that there isn’t more to share, but I have shared a lot and I wanted to create a space for other people to share their own journeys and have a community of people that talk, reflect, and focus on those things that we all love.

I’m sure if you’re listening to this podcast, you’re a wellness addict, and you’re always looking at ways to improve or ways to relax in a little bit of a more interesting, modern way. I struggled, hemmed, and hawed about it. This was years in the making because you don’t just launch something like this. It takes such a long time to create an idea and really visualise it.

MIRROR WATER, in short, is a lifestyle brand and community, and we focus on self-reflection. For me, one of my favourite places to reflect is in the bathtub. I have so many baths, and I think a lot of people, especially if you are more introspective, love bathing. I’ve found it an amazing tool when I feel low or need a reset. Even if you just want to treat yourself. I love, love, love bathing, whether it’s a bath or shower.

I wanted to create something that was multifaceted. I didn’t want to just have a brand, but I also didn’t want to just have a community without products, because I love products. That’s what I’ve spent my career learning about, and I felt that bathing was an untapped market in a sense. I didn’t think there was really a brand that focused on bathing for a younger generation.

Bath products are often targeted towards older people, and it’s often lavender or rose, or of those kinds of things. So I wanted to create a place for burnt out 30-year-olds and 40-year-olds who just need to take five minutes. I wanted to create a realistic approach to wellness that is not so guilt driven. I think we have achieved that really well. I’m super proud of everything that we’ve created. We’ve launched four products; bath salt, a body scrub, a body oil, and a body bomb, and hopefully more to come. It has been the most amazing experience so far.

A: I love the body scrub. I’ve been playing around with your products, and they’re a joy to use. It is interesting that you say that a bath and bathing is like a therapeutic space for you. Being in the spa industry and trained in lots of different bathing rituals, massages, and things, there’s a lot of ancient history, but also some science that backs up all of that.

I know for me personally when life hits the fan or I need to get my ducks in a row, or it’s just anxiety and I’m feeling the pressure, I can bath twice a day, it’s my thinking space and it’s my safe space. So I totally get it. I find water immensely calming and healing in many different ways. All you have said about the core of the brand really resonates with me.

I need to ask, while I was researching what you’re currently up to, I saw that you’ve been at Downing Street recently. Tell us about that.

Yes, I was, I don’t know how I got there either. That was really exciting. I don’t think I knew what a big deal it was. When I got there, I thought, ‘Oh, wow, this is actually a big deal.’ I was invited to speak to a group of people, as a new entrepreneur, all about STEM roles in the beauty space.

I don’t work in technology, so I didn’t really know why I was there. But basically, I was there to be the conduit between the tech jobs and beauty jobs. I talked about how I work with all of these technicians and scientists, that there are so many roles.

Until I started the brand, I had no idea how many people it takes to create a product. I think it’s really interesting that if you want to work in beauty, you have a scientific background, considering the product development. That’s something that I never would’ve thought of when I was growing up.

There are so many opportunities, and we need them, because there are not many product developers in the UK. We need STEM people in the beauty industry to take these crazy ideas and turn them into a real product, and that’s what I was doing at Downing Street.

I definitely felt a bit out of my depth, I’m not going to lie. I tried to talk to the kids as if I were cool, but I realised very quickly that I am not cool.

A: There are so many jobs in the beauty industry, you are absolutely right. It is so vast. My very first job in beauty was at The Body Shop. When the Body Shop first launched, I was living in Worcestershire at the time, and you used to queue up outside The Body Shop with your little basket. They’d put the red ropes out because it was a new concept. As a little girl, I’d go in there with my basket and fill it up with rum and raisin lip balm and other bits. It was really revolutionary.

I love our industry. It’s so multifaceted, and it supports so many jobs and families. There is a big chunk of women in our industry. That’s another thing I love about you Estee, there’s a woman’s collaborativeness around you, which I really admire.

So, we’ve talked about MIRROR WATER. Is there anything else on the ‘What’s next for Estee,’ list?

E: Well, I can talk about my personal life. Right now, I have enough on my plate. I’m trying to manage both things, and I’m growing the team at MIRROR WATER and hopefully launching into retail soon and doing this whole thing.

It’s so exciting for me, because I’ve just been doing the same sort of thing for 10 years, as a content creator, so now I’m learning new things every day and challenging myself. So I have enough on my plate career-wise for a while. I would love to do more presenting, but I don’t have time.

In my personal life, I really want to move. I don’t know when, but I want to stay in London, I think. Maybe. I want to move into a different area. I want to get a house and have a few extra bedrooms in there if people want to read between the lines. I’m getting to that age, and we’ll see how that happens.

I also had my British citizenship a couple of weeks ago, so that was really exciting.

A: That’s huge actually, Estee. That’s amazing.

E: Yes. It is, it’s weird, because we spoke about how I first started when I was 19 and just moved here. Everything was so new, and I was out of my depth and everything. Now it’s 12 years later, and it feels like I’m moving into the next phase of my life and getting the citizenship. This came at a perfect end period, where I felt like certain things in my life just got tied up, and I’m ready for the next stuff now.

It felt really nice and weird at the same time. You look back on your life, and it just goes so fast. I know everybody says it, but it really, really does. So if I could say one thing, I would say, just do the things you want to do. Live your life to the fullest because you don’t get that time back. It’s weird, I’m growing up.

A: What’s interesting is when we plan forwards and we have that five-year plan, and you might think, ‘Where do I want to be personally and business wise,’ and it all seems so far away and almost impossible to get there. But when you look back five years and see what you’ve achieved and changed over that time, you’re like, ‘Holy moly!’

So actually, if that’s what the past five years are going to be like, that’s potentially a reflection of what the next five years are going to be like. I think that’s a slightly different mind shift. When you’re looking and planning into the future, it’s good to reflect on what has been, because it gives you an insight into the amazing, crazy, big things that are to come.

Estee, it’s been an absolute pleasure chatting to you. I usually ask where people can find you, but I know that they can find you online on YouTube, and now TikTok as well.

E: Well, I’m trying on TikTok, but I mainly live on Instagram these days. I just find it the easiest, and I just like it. But yes, YouTube, I do vlogs still and make stories, and I’m all over the place.

A: Amazing. Estee, it has been so lovely chatting to you, and I’m really excited for the future. MIRROR WATER and personal life, I’m sure there’s lots more to come yet.

E: Thank you so much. I need to come and see you for a facial soon.